Charents Apkarian talked to LA’s favorite Trip Pop duo After (Graham Epstein and Justine Dorsey) in April 2024 after failing to file his taxes on time. Since then, they’ve released three singles [listen to their latest “Deep Diving”] and a self-titled EP, played festivals, and been featured in Rolling Stone. Charents hasn’t done any of that, but he did eventually get his taxes filed.
After peforming at a Midcult* show in April 2024 (photo by Aaron Berry Davis)
What did you have for breakfast?
Graham Epstein: I had one meal today, it wasn’t breakfast. It was Holdaak fried chicken. Nothing for breakfast, though.
Justine Dorsey: Mine was boring, I just had sourdough toast. I mean, it was really good. It had salted butter on it so…
How do you both prepare for a show?
GE: We just don’t eat.
Both laugh.
GE: We don’t have a ritual.
JD: I just have to warm up my voice. So I usually go somewhere alone, the way animals go off alone to die. We both get a little nervous.
GE: I take some walks around the venue.
After came onto the scene with a really confident and realized aesthetic. What lead to that?
GE: I worked as a visual artist before this. I’ve directed music videos. I didn’t want to keep putting my creative energies into other people’s projects. It is realized, but it’s also very weird. Hopefully other people like it.
How does collaboration work between you two?
GE: It’s so flexible right now. All of our songs are very different, but the throughline is the aesthetic and Justine’s vocals. There’s different routes that we both like and both don’t like. Justine, you can talk on this, but you’re a Swiftie. I think you can hear it in our music.
JD: (laughs) Yeah, Graham is very tapped into culture in general and is also really excavating what’s going on in culture and why certain things are hitting. His knowledge of music is so deep. I’m a really big pop person but we both cross into each other’s tastes. I would never call Graham a Swiftie at all. He does love pop music, though. Luckily, we’re on the same page most of the time. We both write together and we have a few different producers that we work with. It’s a big project that involves other collaborators, too.
GE: Yeah, each person has their own style. We go to each person for a different genre. Except for Max (Photographic Memory). He worked on “Obvious,” which is similar to “Something Special.”
(photos by Aaron Berry Davis)
What do you think of the current state of pop music? In some ways it’s going through a renaissance, but it’s also become decentralized.
GE: I think COVID had a lot to do with it. Everything’s very accepting and inclusive right now. Like, Michelle Branch is playing at a Nu Metal festival. It’s all very open, and I like that. I think a lot of pop music is a little boring but there’s really good gems.
JD: I feel like I’m always paying attention to it. I agree, people are more accepting and there’s less genre prejudice. We play with shoegaze bands and they totally get what we’re doing. Pop music is always recycling things. Chappell Roan is really exciting and cool and she reminds me of early Lady Gaga. Music is always on a weird loop.
GE: The nostalgia loop is closing in on itself. People are already nostalgic for the 2010s and we just got over the nineties thing in the late 2010s. Everything’s mushing together.
What will musical instruments look and sound like in 500 years, if humans still exist?
JD: It’ll just be frequencies transmitted directly to your head.
GE: There might be a big recession. We’ll go through the Middle Ages again, so we’ll have to come up with more physical things. Unless AI takes over.
JD: Or, like, really really really really rich people will have the crazy technology and everything else will be like lutes, you know?
GE: I think that’s the right answer.
What do you do when you’re not making music?
GE: I make miniature landscapes for music videos and stuff. That’s my actual job.
That’s awesome.
GE: It’s just a niche job I started during COVID. I am passionate about practical effects, but people are obsessed with miniatures and I’m not. I just like the hand part, the practical part.
What about you, Justine?
JD: I work at a record shop and a restaurant. I don’t have any hobbies, I was just talking to someone about that. I was like, “Is that weird?” I’m not quilting or anything. He said hanging out with your friends is a hobby.
That could be a hobby.
JD: Maybe it should be. It should be a more acceptable answer.
It seems to me like trying to connect to people who are out of reach is a theme in your music.
JD: Yeah, I could see that. ‘Cause we’re both Virgos.
GE: Oh yeah, we have the same birthday.
JD: I know what you’re talking about. In the songs there’s a desired person that’s unreachable. That’s the most Virgo thing, having a crush on someone and intentionally not engaging with them.
GE: We both have an unconscious longing.
(photo by Aaron Berry Davis)
Do you think having the same birthday affects your band?
GE: We have the same anxieties, but we balance each other out.
JD: If one of us is freaking out the other will be more calm. Is that what you’re saying?
GE: Yeah.
Choose one historical figure to join the band.
GE: Eric Satie. He’s a composer who’s the founding father of ambient music. He’d have some interesting perspectives for us.
JD: JFK. I think he’d just get drunk and wail on the drums. He’d be a really bad drummer.
Who’s your favorite artist working currently?
JD: Lana Del Rey.
GE: I’m obsessed with Dreamweaver. He’s a DJ from Japan who makes nostalgic sounding drum and bass and jungle.
What about your favorite Y2K artists?
GE: I grew up listening to Fountains of Wayne. All that power pop stuff is really sick.
JD: It’s so basic because everyone’s referencing her but I still think Avril is insane.
What’s next for you guys?
GE: We have an EP coming out this summer and will hopefully do a tour soon. We’re very new.
JD: This is our first interview ever.
How did I do?
JD: You were great.
GE: Yeah. Good questions.
HOME
What did you have for breakfast?
Graham Epstein: I had one meal today, it wasn’t breakfast. It was Holdaak fried chicken. Nothing for breakfast, though.
Justine Dorsey: Mine was boring, I just had sourdough toast. I mean, it was really good. It had salted butter on it so…
How do you both prepare for a show?
GE: We just don’t eat.
Both laugh.
GE: We don’t have a ritual.
JD: I just have to warm up my voice. So I usually go somewhere alone, the way animals go off alone to die. We both get a little nervous.
GE: I take some walks around the venue.
After came onto the scene with a really confident and realized aesthetic. What lead to that?
GE: I worked as a visual artist before this. I’ve directed music videos. I didn’t want to keep putting my creative energies into other people’s projects. It is realized, but it’s also very weird. Hopefully other people like it.
How does collaboration work between you two?
GE: It’s so flexible right now. All of our songs are very different, but the throughline is the aesthetic and Justine’s vocals. There’s different routes that we both like and both don’t like. Justine, you can talk on this, but you’re a Swiftie. I think you can hear it in our music.
JD: (laughs) Yeah, Graham is very tapped into culture in general and is also really excavating what’s going on in culture and why certain things are hitting. His knowledge of music is so deep. I’m a really big pop person but we both cross into each other’s tastes. I would never call Graham a Swiftie at all. He does love pop music, though. Luckily, we’re on the same page most of the time. We both write together and we have a few different producers that we work with. It’s a big project that involves other collaborators, too.
GE: Yeah, each person has their own style. We go to each person for a different genre. Except for Max (Photographic Memory). He worked on “Obvious,” which is similar to “Something Special.”
What do you think of the current state of pop music? In some ways it’s going through a renaissance, but it’s also become decentralized.
GE: I think COVID had a lot to do with it. Everything’s very accepting and inclusive right now. Like, Michelle Branch is playing at a Nu Metal festival. It’s all very open, and I like that. I think a lot of pop music is a little boring but there’s really good gems.
JD: I feel like I’m always paying attention to it. I agree, people are more accepting and there’s less genre prejudice. We play with shoegaze bands and they totally get what we’re doing. Pop music is always recycling things. Chappell Roan is really exciting and cool and she reminds me of early Lady Gaga. Music is always on a weird loop.
GE: The nostalgia loop is closing in on itself. People are already nostalgic for the 2010s and we just got over the nineties thing in the late 2010s. Everything’s mushing together.
What will musical instruments look and sound like in 500 years, if humans still exist?
JD: It’ll just be frequencies transmitted directly to your head.
GE: There might be a big recession. We’ll go through the Middle Ages again, so we’ll have to come up with more physical things. Unless AI takes over.
JD: Or, like, really really really really rich people will have the crazy technology and everything else will be like lutes, you know?
GE: I think that’s the right answer.
What do you do when you’re not making music?
GE: I make miniature landscapes for music videos and stuff. That’s my actual job.
That’s awesome.
GE: It’s just a niche job I started during COVID. I am passionate about practical effects, but people are obsessed with miniatures and I’m not. I just like the hand part, the practical part.
What about you, Justine?
JD: I work at a record shop and a restaurant. I don’t have any hobbies, I was just talking to someone about that. I was like, “Is that weird?” I’m not quilting or anything. He said hanging out with your friends is a hobby.
That could be a hobby.
JD: Maybe it should be. It should be a more acceptable answer.
It seems to me like trying to connect to people who are out of reach is a theme in your music.
JD: Yeah, I could see that. ‘Cause we’re both Virgos.
GE: Oh yeah, we have the same birthday.
JD: I know what you’re talking about. In the songs there’s a desired person that’s unreachable. That’s the most Virgo thing, having a crush on someone and intentionally not engaging with them.
GE: We both have an unconscious longing.
Do you think having the same birthday affects your band?
GE: We have the same anxieties, but we balance each other out.
JD: If one of us is freaking out the other will be more calm. Is that what you’re saying?
GE: Yeah.
Choose one historical figure to join the band.
GE: Eric Satie. He’s a composer who’s the founding father of ambient music. He’d have some interesting perspectives for us.
JD: JFK. I think he’d just get drunk and wail on the drums. He’d be a really bad drummer.
Who’s your favorite artist working currently?
JD: Lana Del Rey.
GE: I’m obsessed with Dreamweaver. He’s a DJ from Japan who makes nostalgic sounding drum and bass and jungle.
What about your favorite Y2K artists?
GE: I grew up listening to Fountains of Wayne. All that power pop stuff is really sick.
JD: It’s so basic because everyone’s referencing her but I still think Avril is insane.
What’s next for you guys?
GE: We have an EP coming out this summer and will hopefully do a tour soon. We’re very new.
JD: This is our first interview ever.
How did I do?
JD: You were great.
GE: Yeah. Good questions.
[INTERVIEW]
[07/18/25]
[07/18/25]